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Are we playing Mother’s Day? the 12th… it says yes but… I fear that may be in error
I agree with Leonidas300 about the adventure logs and I like the whole premise of the campaign. From one Oldskool DM to another, across the bridge between Pathfinder and D&D 4e, I salute you!
Mike will be backing out of our game to stay by his father’s side during his final moments. After which, he’ll be helping his mother relocate to this area.
I hope that your father’s final moments are with love & made as easy as possible. Our prayers are with you and your family.
We are looking for players and/or a DM for PbP games at our gaming forum. Check it out here : http://waterdeep.freeforums.org/index.php
The unveiling of my 3D diorama for the finale will be happening during this next session. Make sure to be there to enjoy my hard work!
I am working on my 1st 3D version of a map. Hopefully it comes out pretty good and will be used in this current adventure. Wish me luck…
On February 11, 2012 at 11:34 PM MikeMannon said:
I have been struggling to determine what is “balanced” in 4e, especially since i see things that are called balanced, that do not seem balanced to me…
Having said that, i think almore’s offering does bring the turn ability closer to the original form from previous editions, and from what i can determine, it doesn’t seem overpowered. why the designers altered turn to its current form i have no idea.
On February 12, 2012 at 01:51 AM OldHeadGM77 said:
This is what it is in 4e. It is an encounter power, and thus can only be used 1×. This keeps it on par with other encounter powers. It is also an ‘extra’ encounter power for a cleric to use. In 4e, clerics are actually much better fighters than they were in previous editions.
In older editions, you either destroyed the undead or it fled. Once cornered though, it fought normally. Also, there was a turning check to determine what lvl undead you could turn. More often than not, you only got the lesser ones anyway (minions), and maybe caught 1 to flee.
In Al’s suggestion, how long would the creature flee for? End of next turn? End of 10 turns? End of the day? 4e is a basic mechanic where most of the powers have a limited duration. It keeps it fair across the board. You may not like it, but I have found 4e to be very good in this regard.
Here is a link to Turning Undead in the d20 system : Your text to link here…
Encounter ♦ Channel Divinity, Divine, Implement, Radiant
Standard ActionClose burst 2 (3 at 11th level, 5 at 21st level)
Target Each undead creature in the burst
Attack Wisdom vs. Will
Hit 1d10 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage, and you push the target a number of squares up to 3 + your Charisma modifier. The target is immobilized until the end of your next turn.
Level 11: 2d10 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage.
Level 21: 3d10 + Wisdom modifier radiant damage.
Miss Half damage.
Special You can use only one channel divinity power per encounter.
On February 12, 2012 at 01:55 AM OldHeadGM77 said:
Looking at the above power, it seems pretty potent versus undead. Most undead will be vulnerable to radiant, so they’ll take an extra 5 or 10 dmg based on that vulnerability. The damage by Yamis at 11th level 2d10+6, plus a push of 4 squares and then immobilization. That’s pretty darned good. That push could be into a magical zone, or even hindering terrain like a cliff, pool of blood chaos, or other natural hazard.
On February 12, 2012 at 01:58 AM OldHeadGM77 said:
BTW, there are paragon paths and several feats which allow more uses of Turn Undead as well as making it more potent.
You posted this in the adventure log. I’m gonna edit it and move it to the comments tab. I’ll have to copy the individual responses 1 by 1.
Posted for Al (you put this in the adventure log) :
As i think on it more and more I’m very upset with how “Turn Undead” is within 4e. It does nothing to “Turn” the undead. it holds an undead.
Here is what I propose:
Encounter (Special) * Standard Action
Close Burst 5 (10 at 11th lvl and 15 at 21st lvl) Target: One or more Undead in the burst.
You glow with the radiance of your deity’s power as it is channeled through you searing the undead.
Keyword: Channel Divinity, Divine, Implement, Radiant
Attack: Wisdom vs Reflex
Hit: 2D10 + Wisdom modifier radiance damage. Then target then must make a immediate save. If target saves, target is slowed until end of your next turn. If target fails it’s save, target flees from you at a run.
Miss: Target/s takes just half damage. No other effect.
Special: You can use this power twice but only once per round. At 21st lvl you gain the ability to use this power a third time during an encounter.
Seems I really screwed over Calauxin & Antharask. The combat would have been SO different and defo more challenging for a pair of mated adult green dragons. Was doing some rules reading and came across the following :
When a creature is prone, it is lying down. It takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls, and the only way it can move is by crawling, teleporting, or being pulled, pushed, or slid. In addition, it grants combat advantage to enemies making melee attacks against it, but it gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against ranged attacks from enemies that aren’t adjacent to it.
If a creature is flying when it falls prone, it safely descends a distance equal to its fly speed. If it doesn’t reach a solid surface, it falls.
A creature can end this condition on itself by standing up. A creature can drop prone as a minor action.
This condition can affect limbless creatures, such as fish and snakes, as well as amorphous creatures, such as oozes.
Some creatures have the innate ability to fly, whereas others gain the ability through powers, magic items, and the like. The rules for flight in the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game stress abstraction and simplicity over simulation. In real life, a flying creature’s ability to turn, the speed it must maintain to stay aloft, and other factors put a strict limit on flight. In the game, flying creatures face far fewer limitations.
Flight follows the basic movement rules, with the following clarifications.
Fly Speed: To fly, a creature takes the walk, run, or charge action but uses its fly speed in place of its walking speed. A creature that has a fly speed can also shift and take other move actions, as appropriate, while flying.
Moving Up and Down: While flying, a creature can move straight up, straight down, or diagonally up or down. There is no additional cost for moving up or down.
Falling Prone: If a creature falls prone while it is flying, it falls. This means a flying creature falls when it becomes unconscious or suffers any other effect that knocks it prone. The creature isn’t actually prone until it lands and takes falling damage.
Remaining in the Air: A flying creature does not need to take any particular action to remain aloft; the creature is assumed to be flying as it fights, moves, and takes other actions. However, a flying creature falls the instant it is stunned, unless it can hover.
Landing: If a creature flies to a surface it can hold onto or rest on, the creature can land safely.
Terrain: Terrain on the ground does not affect a flying creature if the terrain isn’t tall enough to reach it. Because of this rule, flying creatures can easily bypass typical difficult terrain, such as a patch of ice on the ground. Aerial terrain can affect flying creatures.
Awesome campaign – I really like the adventure logs
Putting up a shameless plug for a PbP game that a few of us are in. If you like, please visit the website. Have a look around. If you are interested in getting into a game, please register and introduce yourself.
One of my biggest peeves with 4E is that it IS so abstract, sometimes to the point of being ridiculous. I think the basic concept of the skill challenge is a good idea; I can see a number of situations where it could be used effectively. (i.e., getting a group to work together to get through a portcullis when you need to get through it in a hurry). But i hAve also seen situations where the skill challenges which have caused me enough frustration as to lose interest in the task. Unfortunately my memory fails me to offer a particular example from gameplay. But what i do remember is that people without a skill pertinent to the challenge were required to use a skill they were not good at, when others with more proficiency were denied the chance to use them. THAT makes no sense to me, and to impose those kinds of requirements and restrictions on players makes the game less fun for me. I understand why the rules were written as such, to encourage group activity, but where 4E fails me is it gets too abstract at times, in the name of fun; and that is what actually ruins the fun for me.
Like what Frank was talking about. I cannot see a skill challenge on a speak with dead. Only a few of us are able to use the ritual, and it seems logical that only a few skills would be applicable; diplomacy, bluff, maybe intimidation (though how do you intimidate someone who is already dead?) some kind of knowledge or history might also be applicable, but otherwise….
And then, to require everyone in the group to participate? Not all of us are good at those few skills, and those who arent would prefer that those who are good at them handle it, that is the logical way to proceed. But the rules are going to force someone to do something they are not good at, and if they fail (and especially if that failure leads to overall group failure at the challenge) that person is not going to be so happy about it. Anti-fun is what it is.
Personally, i think a skill challenge should be equivalent to some fraction of an encounter; have some number of skill challenges collectively be equivalent to one encounter. (Depending on the challenge itself, some might be so big and important as to warrant their own full encounter status, while others might be so trivial as to be worth almost nothing, except for whatever benefit is derived from success). The challenge should also be strictly voluntary, no forcing anyone to participate if they choose not to. Sometimes it is important and wise for one to sit back and let the experts work and stay out of their way.
I realize these skill challenges are most likely dictated by the module we are running through, so i am not blaming you scott. Once again, i feel the issue falls with 4E, and while i have seen a few interesting concepts and innovations in this version, i am none-the-less disappointed with the overall results.
OH I forgot the other part of your post about participation of all PC’s etc.
in general I think that the skill challenges need to be across the party BUT that does not always make sense… In the case of a ritual it makes NO sense for any player without the ritual caster feat for sure… which includes damakos BTW… the problem is that 4th edition as abstractes the concept of a skill chalelnge too far and took it out of the role playing aspect of the game. I’ve always had skill challenges in my games, even if they were not called that. They were role palying moments that were reinforced by a skill check or 5, you’ve done it too… However I’d bet a lot of money that the skill challenges we are talking about are the ones not scripted by the Modules – hence they are not really providing XP anyway since you adn I both are using the milestone method of advancement. in that method the encounters and skill challenges, indeed counting XPs is essentially pointless. So what we are really talking about is the codification in rule form of roleplay. In general I’m against this, BUT sine its now part of all d20 systems it bears talking about… Things like skill challenges, are essential – they add to the tension of a fight, they apply persitent penalties, they abstract situations liek a sprained knee gatherd from a tortorous climb over difficult countryside… etc. etc. in that respect its good, but in the other respects it tries to make good roleplaying into a couple of dice rolls… we’ve discussed this before and I think we actually are in agreement with this. Since you and I are both not “really” awarding XP’s for skill challenges rather when the party gets to a certain point in the adventure – its an even more moot point sinc ethe benefits are ONLY story related. I’m aware of the discussions on the boards, and in general I think that they are being made from the premise that skill challenges are too easy of a way to gain XP… My response to that is the GMs argueing aganst it are essentially arguing against good roleplaying… At which point they are missing the point of the game altogether… but that is a differnet debate about the nature of 4E- that I’m sure Bill will be happy to enjoin. 4E has been decent at some things but terrible at others- encouraging inspired roleplay is one of its weaknesses IMHO… skill challenges being the easiest example of this.
To the point in our games though – again since they are essentially None XP based, its more of how the thing works mechanically for sucess or failure – NOT as an XP awarding tool, which as a person that thrives on the role play over the XP (I do like the XP don’t get me wrong) is more important… Sorry for being long winded…
well there are two essential parts to a skill challenge as laid out by the DMG – (3 if you count DC level). The first is the complexity level, the second is the level of the encounter… (this is in the XP awarding portion of the DMG if i recall corectly). The level should be related to the target of the ritual (IMHO). The complexity should be related to the relationship of the target. unfortunately I do not see a table for that in the DMG as in previous versions of D&D. In SW there are 5 levels of “attitude” towards PCs in skill challenges that are of a “social” nature. I’d apply similar “levels” to the complexity of the challenge… Hostile being he worst – hence the most complex, friendly being te easiest – least complex. The DCs should remain the same (as per the examples in the DMG for instence) but the numbner of failures befoe rsuccesses drastically changes based on the complexity.
However I’m back to talking about speak with dead as one example. In general I thin kthis stuff needs to be laid out as its not as simple as it looks. If for no other reason then it “looks” bad when you make things essentially impossible for no reason us a players can see. if there is a rule in place it takes that away.
in my previous post I did not mean to imply that you did not know the motivations etc of the NPC. again text is not the best way to have this conversation… I was using it as an example of how yo umay be preceived in the absence of a rule clearly defining how things “shoud” work.
Obvioously there are always the oddball circumstances that come up where the GM needs to wing it. that’s OK the first time but after that the rule needs to be written to avoid that in the future yaknow what I’m getitng at? that’s wha yI went to lengths with Bill about the stealth rule in SW… I thought it was totally unrealistic and wrote down how it was workign form then on… itlimited his characters abilities but didn’t eliminate them, but what it did was take the gray area out of my rulings. He may not have liked it but he was informed of how it worked (and didn’t) and adjusted his play accordingly. IMHO that’s how it supposed to go… that’s all – this isn’t even really a complaint – just an appeal for better documentation :D
I believe the level is setup based on the level of the encounter itself. So, if it is was a level 10 encounter, then the skill challenge would be on or about level 10. I can certainly see a lower skill challenge if using speak with dead on a lower level creature (or minion who tend to be higher level actually), and vice versa if the target creature is of much higher level than the encounter. I haven’t written rules just for this reason, as it would be hard to gauge.
I, as the DM, do know all the knowledge of each target creature per-se, having read the modules and knowing the storyline, and if the skill challenge is successful, you learn all the info. Even partial success reveals some info (although it may be seeded with a lie or two).
I guess a few examples to use:
Needing clues you fail to rescue a councilman. You find him dead. He is an ally. SKILL CHALLENGE 2 (if that). He is likely just willing to tell you whatever you want. The skill challenge would only to help him ‘remember something’ because his memory is foggy.
Gnoll Cellkeeper : Skill challenge 7-9 pending level. Not wanting to be forthcoming, you will need trickery, guise, and whatever to get him to talk and spill info.
Fangren : Skill challenge 10-12 pending his actual level. Doesn’t like any of you. You destroyed his plans, and IF he knows anything else, surely doesn’t want you to achieve any level of success. Ofcourse, good rolling might convince him that in his state he might get resurrected or reborn, and has 1 final chance of ruining someone else’s plans. ‘If you failed, why would you want them to succeed!’.
Furthermore, a skill challenge is an actual group encounter (group activity). Having just the best one or two in the group roll, defeats the skill challenge and how the skill challenge system is built. It earns a milestone. This portion of 4th edition has been debated greatly. If you want the normal DCs, then everyone participates. If not, the DCs will be substantially higher.
Just for Kicks I went into the DMG to see what guidance is suggested for speak with dead skill challenges. I found one example – is that the one that you are going to use as a guide? If so then a speak with dead is a is a complexity 2 skill challenge with mostly moderate and easy DCs… but I’m sure not all scenarios are the same, how do YOU want to handle things where the skill challenges is higher or lower than the party level… What are the guidelines that determine the challenge level of the ritual? Its stuff like this that appears to be “F-it I don’t feel like telling the players this because its too much trouble to figure out what this bad-guy knows. so I’ll make it impossible” I’m not saying you do that – just saying that’s what it looks like… and feels like sitting on the other side of the DM screen.
But this really isn’t about speak with dead per se… its about when we are deviating form the rulesas written – or calrifying them writing it down so we know what rules we are playing by – that’s all I’m trying to get at. it removes the appearance of “bias”… I’m not saying that you are biased (referring back to a previous comment) just that wtih a rule in place there is no doubt.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT i’M TALKING ABOUT
if you are planning on NOT using what is in the DMG then you need to post what the rules are so we as players have a clue… if you are saying that you are going to use the guidelines int he DMG then nothing needs to be written oterwise we shold know hwa the frickin’ rule is ;)
I would be biased how?
As for the rule, it is in the DMG. When it comes up, I will certainly use what it has set forth as a guideline.
Remember, the books with rules in them, are merely guidelines and each DM will end up having his own ruling for each game…
what are the rules for how the complexities are assigned. Complexity X for equal level complexity X+1 or level + 1 something like that. Its important so that us as player know what our powers do… Running it as you’ll make it up on the spot is BS – no offense intended, but that is the way it comes across. a rule takes all of the Bias out of it.
Ahhhh…Speak with Dead. It is written in the ritual that at the GM’s option, it can be a skill challenge.
With enemies, who do NOT want to be spoken to by those who just killed them, or to yield any information, will need a skill challenge in order to wrangle info out of them.
The higher up the ranks the enemy is, the harder it will be to coax info out of him. I can put together what complexity each lvl creature would be, but would that be something each and every PC would know in-game? All you would know is that Joe Schmoe would likely talk, singing a canaries tune, but he may not know as much, and Master Boss is less likely to spill the beans, but would know alot more…
Anywhere from a complexity 1 to as high as deemed necessary for higher up enemies…
Hope this helps ;)
Thats my Point – Nobody to (my knowledge) has EVERY moved away 1 as part of the charge. Its always been a move action to do so.
I’m not use what the heck you’re talking about when you write expanding on the rules in the PHB as written… that’s not what I was referring to with writing down house rules. Specifcally what I was referring to is the rules that govern speak with dead ritual since you are stating that you want it to work differently than the rules as written… Or more precisely exercising the GM option to have it work differently. What is the rule? Is the rule set so restrictive that it not worth bothering to ever cast it?
If you want to write/expand on the rule as written in the PHB, I will be glad to do so.
As for the charge, in the same move action, you couldn’t move back 1, then charge. First off, charge is a standard action, and thus each square must bring you closer. Secondly, to do like you want, you’d use a move action to move back 1, then your standard to charge.
Lastly, if you’ve already used your move action and are only 2 squares away from your target, you can’t charge (thus moving back 1, then charging).
Oh I forgot to mention someting about the charge. it does nto change the ability to move back one then charge. From the initial spot the charge starts at is far enough away – not the starting location of the round. So no it really changes nothing, form the way its always been played by us. Shify or move away to proper range then the charge starts form that square. No different.
Sorry I nkw you dislike the rule discussion but its important to have a clear understanding to avoid the BS aty the table… WHY WRITING THE HOUSE RULES DOWN IS SO IMPORTANT…
D&D will only be a Hiatus. there are 3 adventures left in the Dawn of Defiance campaign. The first one that you will go on will be pretty short. I do not expect us to be playing all that long… a few months would be my guess.
It’s not just move atleast 2 squares. It is move atleast 2 squares from your starting position. It changes the ability to move backwards 1 square and then charge the opponent. Ofcourse if you have 2 move actions left, this is no problem, as 1 square back is 1 move, and then 2 squares forward via a charge is your 2nd move, aka Standard action to charge.
As for arguing, I’ve made my ruling on it. I feel I am right. You both feel I’m wrong. I’ve taken note of your disagreement. With DnD ending shortly, we won’t have to worry about rules arguments anymore. They are tedious and add NO fun to the game.
I don’t see how this changes anything, just clarifies the existing rule.
We always need to move at least 2 squares…
Sliding back, changes nothing.
Fangrens power… Changes nothing, unless it moves past the ability for him to continue movement. technically the charge never fninshed with his power if he’s still in range he should be able to continue the charge.
And we can continue to disagree about the triggering of his power – the fact that charge is liste CLEARLY as a standard action and his power is a reaction the charge “should complete” before the reaction takes place. We discussed this at leangth last week and I still think your interpretation of Fangrens power is overly generous/ your interpretation of the Charge is overly harsh. but we can agree to disgree peacefully ;)
A creature uses the charge action when it wants to dash forward and launch an attack with a single action. Such an attack is sometimes referred to as a charge attack.
CHARGE A TARGET
1. Move: The creature moves up to its speed toward the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the target, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position.
2. Attack: The creature either makes a melee basic attack against the target or uses bull rush against it. The creature gains a +1 bonus to the attack roll.
3. No Further Actions: The creature can’t take any further actions during this turn, except free actions.
A creature’s turn usually ends after it charges. However, it can extend its turn by taking certain free actions, such as spending an action point (which grants the creature an extra action).
Seems to be some changes to the Charge, sometime ago actually. I’m posting this here now, so everyone sees it. If you read through it, there are some fundamental changes.
Such as: Must move at least 2 squares from starting square.
This will change quite a bit.
Also, if someone pushed you back or used slide, to put you back at your starting spot, you could certainly lose your charge. A prime example is the power that Fangren has. He could have ‘slide’ Yamis back the way he came, thus putting him at his starting square, and thus negate the charge. That, then, ends the turn (unless he has movemeent left).
I was more thinking that a sub-campaign would be cool so that we could still use the same web pages etc. But if we need to make a secons one I guess that would be OK…
I, as a GM, could create other campaigns, I think. I can check into it. If not, you could always create your own, using this format (or a new one if u wish..).
Is it possible to create a sub campaign? for example Od Skool Gamers has the SoW campaign and the DoD Campaign for when we get to Star Wars… IF not I may ahve to generate something since I like this game interaction between sessions. instead of Destiny points additional force points ro some other cool buff… I doubt I’ll generate the cool cards though…
Just a question – understanding that we all have “real” lives, are we ever going to go to the DP, AP upgrade system with cards? It maes it so DPs adn APs are not throw awways at the end of sessions and I think “could” be a cool way to amnipulate the game a bit to get a really good boon when you REALLY need it.
No presure – just asking :D
3 most memorable
OK…kinda bored. Briefly chatted w/ Bill and were discussing some of the recent combats. We don’t have a forum or a way to make a poll, so I thought I’d just post here.
What are your Top 3 Memorable fights in the campaign so far? Brief or long explanation…as u wish…
My appologies to all for missing the session on the 13th. I had a broken tooth, giving me a lot of problems. Not just pain, but an infection, fever, and some slight blood poisoning. I got an emergency appointment monday and had it extracted, and am now feeling feeling much better. Looking forward to reading some posts and seeing what happened. BTW, Excellent tune, Bill. who did it?
That would be awkward, and embarrassing ;)
you do know that the birdman is gonna turn out to be an avatar of some “concerned” divine power… Pelore perhaps… we’re (me specifically) gonna feel bad for treating him like idiot(s) when/if we ever figure that out…
I added ‘The Old Birdman’ to the NPC charter, picture and all. Watcha think?
I like the idea of the electronic (and therefore private) communications between DM and player. I would rather not however install any sort of chat program on my system. The good ole post-it note worked in the past, but everybody would know you were chatting with the DM about something.
I suggest gmail chat because it saves the conversation. I haven’t used it much, but it might even have the capability to chat with multiple people. Facebook is good, but I don’t think there’s a way to save what was written.
I have had an idea.
For those with a laptop, I’d like for all of us to find a mutual program where instant messaging take can place. I’m not saying this is a requirement, but it could be a nice addition to the game, when I have the need to send a msg to just 1 player, or just some of the players.
I know ‘old skool’ would be throwing a note, but hey, it’s the modern age here.
I’m thinking Windows Messenger (old MSN), or even keep your facebook page open, as there is an IM option there. What would be best?
I could send a note to a player instantly, giving pertinent info, which the player can role-play how he wants to share that info. Perhaps a player wants to say something just to me, this is another use of the tool.
We havn’t had to do this before, but by making it an option, it can only enhance the game…
You are correct. It was meant to be +1 over level, so 2 at 1st lvl. Hoping to have some of these avail for play this Sunday…
You probably want to limit it to the chr level +1 so that the 1st level guys can actually have a card. Not that it matters to us now that we are well past that, but for future reference AND that you want the cards to be an incentive to post to the blog etc… If I can not get one due to level restriction then why post… other than because I wanted to tell the story… Just sayin’
It does suck not being able to go back and edit. You can always copy/paste into a new comment and delete old one…
As for the cards, they will carry over from session to session, allowing you to accumulate them as you want. At any one time, you may have up to your chr’s level -1; example 6th lvl=5 cards.
There will actually be 3 tiers, although right now, there is only one tier 3 card. It’s a refresh of your Daily Power. 3 +1 cards to trade up to it sounds bout right. I will add a few more that are actual boons/buffs, so it’s just not a refresh of your Daily Power (which is a powerful hit & usually an effect upon hitting).
The Tier 2 cards are more powerful than the Tier 1 cards. Usually giving you a buff/boon for an encounter along with a card that refreshes your encounter power. In some instances, you may get a power to use, one time, like : Teleport up to 10 sqaures. If space if occupied, occupant teleports to square you vacated. Works on ally or enemy.
That’s just 1 example of a +2 card.
Also for the record this comment board SUCKS – as you can not edit your comments after posting… my example of trading up has 3’s instead of 2’s in a few spots – I hope you get the intended idea…
For the record though – I do not believe that needing to take an extended rest places you into the category of NOT being a hero… as has been implied. A dead hero isn’t much of a hero… the bad guys ALWAYS come into the fights fully prepared – that is the way they are written up… we need to be judicious with our resources, and sometimes through bad luck, bad tactics, or overly powerful encounters we need to use up our options… REST is the only recourse. You could cahnge that with some resource buffs in the cards… One that resets surges for the day sounds like a winner, another that allows you to reclaim a used daily could be another good one… Just sayin… Perhaps those are tier 2 cards…
Abilty to “trade up”... as an incentive to “keep going” like we’ve discussed in the past. Allow two cards to be traded in for a “teir 2 card” where the teir 2 cards are very powerful. This would most liekly need to include some sort of ability to carry over cards from one session to the next (APs already do but DPs to not) for example 2 APs for 1 tier 3 card 3 APs for 2 tier 2 cards… encourages NOT taking an extended rest.
Of course you’d need to make the Buff worth it. Something REALLY cool like an auto crit if you hit, or a +2 for the rest of the encounter on all rolls… something REALLY good to make it worth while.
Just an idea or two ;)
WIth the extra time off now, this will provide ample time to finish up the rest of the cards and begin putting them into play when we get back to playing…
I will supply an outline as to how/when cards can be earned, keeping it as impartial & fair as I can. Mostly what we’ve discussed so far, will be implemented.
If u have ideas for buffs, resource boons, etc., for the various cards, plz post away. Try to be as specific as possible.
oh – stylish maneuver is one of the things that is kinda a pet project of mine. for a long time I’ve been trying to think of a way to incorporate more “style” in the combats of various games. The abstraction of a 6 second segemnt resulting in one “good” attempt, works but you lose some of the flavor. for example during the lightsaber duels in SW there are always the odd kick, punch, trip thrown in. you know in the game mechanic the attack was a lightsaber strike… but “on camera” it was the backhand from Qui Gon that knocked Maul off the platform… I’ve been trying to think of ways to insert that kind odf stuff back into the game to make it a bit more “diverse” then I swing my sword/lightsaber again. Perhaps a reward for a successful attack not invovling your main (best to hit) weapon.
the reason I suggested things like good and bad skill rolls, having buffs actually “work” etc. is to counter balance the fact that the strikers wouold usually get the “kill”, but would almost never get the “buff”. If you’re worried about controllers create a few that they are “likely” to get.
Besides the stuff I mentioned were things I spent like 5 minutes typing out… I did not put a lot of thought into it really… just things that came to mind.
the things to remember are – make them oriented to how YOU want the game to go. make earning them impartial. Make the reward worth the “risk” incurred. For example, a single +1 bonus is not liekly to make me forgoe an extended rest where I could get 2 daily poweres recharged… just sayin… so to get the desired effect the reward needs to be “worth it”.
Also consider that the rewards do not have to be “buff” related. they could be resource related. Regain the use of a daily, or encounter power. Reset your (or an ally’s) surges. there are a TON of options. just make handing them out totally fair, and in line with how you want the game improved.
Why not just give out 2 cards per milestone instead of going 1 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 3 for third? 2 per milestone would be more consistent, and less confusing, hence fewer arguments.
story/quest completion, sure, good time to get one. I also like the idea of being able to reade them up.
you mentioned two other categories, instant rewrd for good roleplaying, and after session reward for good roleplaying. i am thinking there would be too much overlap. would not a person who earned an immediate rp award be in line to get session rp award? maybe or maybe not, but it does muddy the situation. i think too much overlap here.
i agree with no reward for killing a boss, same reasons.
best tactician? not based on a vote, again, dont want the voting thing at all involved here. it is too much up to opinion, and again i already covered the voting thing prior.
stylish maneuver would, IMHO, be very close to role playing award mentioned previously. it is merely RP during combat. if your going to do it for RP then stylish maneuver should be included as well. again, it is merely RP during combat.
i dont like the idea of awards for good/bad die rolls either.
I cycled progression sounds nice (or those who favor random & chaos, top die roll). This puts the cards in the group on a fairly regular basis. I’m not sure I’m in favor of perm cards, but I do like your suggestion about making these an incentive to keep the story moving.
I’m not sure why I don’t like a permanent reward, but I can see your reasoning, Frank. Perhaps if a long term story goal is reached in the AP timeline and/or the group shows selfless acts in achieving said goals, I may arbitrarily award a perm card. Very possible. Like u said, I can state this before each adventure as to how you can earn a perm reward card.
Any other ideas?
Oh and I have to agree with Mike about the best player voting. at a con wher eits strangers is OK totally because the vote has no lasting iompact. the fact that the vote IS more important because these are people we deal with (at least) weekly can generate friction over time… while we wold all like to think we are mature and evovled enough to have it not effect our egos… we are all still human… Totally random or in a progression, under a clearly defined ruleset is the way to go…
You could go the other way here… or a combinaton of both.
Give them out repeatedly for at the table accomplishments. AND give them out for acheiving campaign milestones (not module). Use them to provide an OOC motivation for the players to do what you the DM wants us to do. FOr example we’ve just discussed that me (Frank) do not want to run through a module without taking several extended rests because its not beneficial for the character or group to do so – but may serve the “story”. If you as DM state before the adventure that a reward card is being given out (permenant) for accomplishing this adventure with only 3 (pick a reasonable number) extended rests during the adventure we as players might be motivated to do sometihng “less than optimal” for our characters to gain a long term benefit. Additonally you know the key plot points for the adeventure path – provide a permanent reward for the completion of them, by time X.
you get the idea. this incorporates the idea of permenant rewards ala the RPG with individual temps like you’re suggesting. However right out a rule list of when they are given. have the cards given out randomly (or perhaps in categories skill cards for skill type rewards etc) have the players roll to get the card… that kind of stuff…
Just a few semi-random thoughts on the subject.
Giving one out at a milestone might be good, but i would be against doing it as a result of a random roll; instead, cycle it through each PC in order. Again, I would stay away from any assignment to “Best Player”, either by group vote or DM award. This might work OK at CONS where the participants are usually strangers, but this can cause some hard feelings among players who know each other.
Yes, I know about how they run the RPGA reward card system, having only done some research on. That is what got my wheels spinning about getting them into our game. They wouldn’t be permanent. They’d be earned, and spent, and re-earned. Perhaps you re-earn a new card w/ different effects.
I will obviously be eliminating the Quest & Race cards, as they would not apply. That still leaves about 25-30 usable reward cards. Plus, I’ve already been making a list of other cool effects that will be on my (actually Xavier’s) custom made cards.
Like I said, I have the 1st Xavier promo card done, printed, and kinda laminated. Bringing it Sunday.
I’m open to suggestions as to how to get the cards into your possession. Keeping in mind, you still get a Session Point for posting on the blog.
My 1st thoughts were to do a ballot for ‘best of’ category(s) & role-playing moments.
I am also thinking of perhaps ammending the current house rule for milestones, and instead give a card randomly to a couple players (die roll).
Open to any & all ideas really…
Having an awesome blog entry fleshing out your character is its own reward.
The RPG cards are for completeing quests/modules etc. (Usually at a convention or other special event) and are usually similar to the character getting an extra minor feat, or the ability to play a Race that other players do not have the ability to. My point is they are permanent things that are rewards for doing X,Y, & Z.
While in general I applaud the concept of providing incentive for contributing to the blog weekly, I do not think this way is the way to go.
I do kinda like the concept of having to spend you “buff” on another player… or perhaps a penalty to a badguy… but what to give the bonus for I’m not sure.
How to incentivize the blog posting without becoming “crazy”... need to think on it more.
I can see where you’re coming from on this, Bill. If you look at it another way, which is how I’m trying to propose this, is to inject something more into the game. I know this is NOT a popularity contest. At our ages, I would think that would be the last thing we’d think of. I can think of none better, to give a deserving vote, than your peers at the same table.
Don’t think of it as a popularity contest. Mike brought a good point that the same people may win it consistently. I ask why?
If you guys are seriously against voting (which is done at various cons and RPGA events), then I can do it with myself keeping track. Would a vote towards a stranger hold more value than your friend at the table?
Seriously. I’m not interested in voting and popularity contests…
I have a sample card. already modified somewhat, which I’ll bring over on Sunday. I think once you see the card first-hand, you will like it.
The benefits will be pretty diverse. Mike already mentioned some of the boons you can get (which already exist). Each card will help the player as well as helping another player. Benefits both ways.
The Session Point is going to stay, so no worries. The house rule for a SP, is that they cannot gain any buff. I will be enforcing this starting after the Easter break. The Reward cards will make their inaugural appearance as well.
As for scoring, I will keep track of some stuff, and my vote will count. Your vote will also count, so I think email ballot is best. This should add some energy and color to the game, so in the end, I don’t think this would be a mistake.
I think the Session Points are plenty benefit enough. What I always did was keep tick marks on each player + and -, when they did good roleplaying, good ideas, or screwed the pooch, metagamed their characters decisions, etc. Each tick was 10 experience.
Since you’re not doing experience per-se – you’d have to come up with some other reward. Or, you can just leave well enough alone.
I’ve played in 3.5 games with almost the same exact thing and don’t really care for it. Take a vote and see what everyone wants to do. If the majority wants to do it, I’ll give it a go.
Perhaps a list of acceptable benefits should be considered as wel….
+1 to hit or damage
+2 to hit or damage
reroll one damage die once
MAX one damage die
regain encounter power just used (i know a biggie, but worth considering)
attack effects different defense than normal
just some suggestions, at least worth talking about
I like the idea of a closed ballot vote, they actually did that at the sparks games at gencon.
I would recommend a first and second place for “best player” (can include actual RP, tactician, etc.) To perhaps prevent the same person from getting it consitently week after week, you could rule that a person cannot take 1st place two weeks in a row, but is still eligible to win 2nd place.
I would NOT do one for die rolling streaks; GOOD die rolls are their own benefit.
A RP moment reward? perhaps, but keep in mind such an event will play heavy into the "end of session" ballot, and will likely lead to double rewards.
With the possible benefits of this, it is still possible that the same people might continue to gain these benefits consistently. The fact that they can only be played to help OTHER players is a good balancing point.
Perhaps, also consider, multiple players contributing various benefits at the same time on a player’s use of an action point. This could be allowed to help “accentuate” a dramatic point in a combat. (i.e., the boss is about to escape, sheldon dispatches his current foe, sees the boss ready to escape and expends an action point to shoot him. Other players play their benefits onto sheldon to help buff his attack. This would also require additional dramatic color from the DM).
I like the sound of a ‘Fortune Card’. Other names could be ‘Destiny Card’ ‘Fate Card’ ‘Hero Card’.
This would be in addition to the Session Point which is given out for posting a log. So, therefore, the card would have to be earned another way.
That leads me to thinking that the card gets earned by buying me food! No, that’s a joke.
As for collecting the cards, they stay from one session to the next. You can collect as many as you have levels.
My question, would these cards be only for the following session, or would they be in existence until used?
I would be inclined to say that the recipients should be those who participated, not given out randomly. You could conceivably just alter a session point so that it could be used; as an action point, or, as a +x bonus , or yadda yadda yadda…(player’s choice)
Could call it a “fortune card”, or “fortune point”...
I am considering adding another house rule which can offer a bonus to your character. As an extra incentive to make log posts and/or contribute to the blog (& campaign as a whole), I am trying to come up with a way where there are ‘Play Cards’ (I know sucky name, but that is what I’m calling it for now).
The play card can contain a bonus of +1 or +2 (maybe more in certain cases). These cards can be played any time after a D20 roll is made, but only one card can be played per die roll. Any player can use the card for an ally (not for themselves).
This idea is inspired by RPGA rules where they give out cards for various things, one them a + bonus card. My thoughts would be the card is earned by how many of the players post each week on the blog. If all 6 players post a blog, everyone earns a ‘play card’. Any less than 6 would equal half the ‘play cards’, randomly given to a player. Example-4 players post=2 cards to be given.
Others could be given out for good role-play.
If you have any suggestions on how these cards can be earned, plz post. Watcha think?
Your Old Head GM
Murray has informed me that his job has forced a change in his schedule. He will miss the next 4-5 sessions.
I have plans which can include Cobok, and a good reason for his disappearing from the group for a short time…
Hurry back Matt!
They are in A-Z order now. Next to they’re name is what they are and/or perhaps where they are from. Look thru the list and see if it’s good.
Also, the NPC entries cannot be edited by any of the players, so if there is something I missed or forgot, post it here & I’ll make the changes accordingly.
You may also enter NPC’s yourself if u wish.
Listing them alphabetically works for me, perhaps with just a mention as to when they popped into the adventure. Yes, my memory is quite fleeting….
The NPC list would have to be converted over to the Wiki page so it can be edited. I’m still not seeing why you would want them organized by adventure (or how u met them). An A-Z listing should be sufficient, no? I’m sure most of you remember the NPC’s you’ve come across…Our minds are that fleeting yet. Are they? lol
Anyways, sure, it could be done, via the Wiki page, and broken into chapters, or adventures, or by order of appearance…whatever is wanted…
The benefit is that its not just a “list of names” it provides a bit of context as to when we met them and what their relation ship is.
Does ordering it by adventure provide the “best” organiztion perhaps not but its better then a straight list…
Ummm – Although I appreciate the updating of the NPCs you need to be careful about what is “known” and what is “theorized”.
‘ve looked at Modra just for kicks and a coupl of the items there are things that we “thought” mioght be true, but now I “know” to be true… For example “I” did nto know that he was the emissary. I suspected it “might” be true but it could also have been his “superior”. Just a thought for you… unless you’re trying to lead us a certain way by giving us that info as “fact” ;-) you sneak you…
Not in the NPC tracker section of the site. The only options there are adding NEW entries, or editing existing ones. At least that’s the only option I see. There is no option to edit the main NPC tracker page itself.
Instead, what you do is go to the Wiki section and add an NPC page. On that page, you put whatever you want, linking to the NPC tracker pages as needed. I don’t see any benefit to organizing them by adventure or anything though. “The Emissary” has for example, spanned several adventures. Danen Greef will as well (I’m certain we haven’t seen the last of him.) As has Alys, and several others.
It can be done, although I’d likely need Bill’s help to do it.
Can we change the NPCs list to a wiki type of thing that is sorted by location, or by “adventure”?
Added maps and pictures to the latest post… Scott gave me permission to extract the maps from the module… I did so carefully making sure I did not read any more the the title of the map… I have only extracted maps for locations we have already been, and looked no further into the module.
Click on the wiki link and look into the various places. You will find the maps to Rivenroar there. I won’t need to extract the maps from the modules, as someone has done this already and I have them saved on my computer. Just need to print them. Also hoping that the guys who did the 1st 3 adventures w/ colored maps, return.
As for adding new pics, I should have and will likely do so again. I’ve really been adding to the 1st person who posts, because the pics are basically the same…I only have a certain # of pics saved for each encounter, room, etc…
I like the idea of extracting the map of the room and putting it into each log entry. Tell me how this Sunday. I’ll be over earlier than early, since we’re starting the session @ 4pm. Prolly be there by 3pm.
LETS GO PHILLIES!!! Beat them Mercs!
It seems to me that the “maps feature on the site kinda sucks… But Bill and Scott have mastered the art of embedding pictures to the posts. I was thiking that it would be kind of cool to embed the pictures of the “sites” for the writeups into the writeups themselves. All it would take is a bit of picture manipulation to crop out the other portions of the maps except for the rooms we are in… and taking out any DM only info from the map. If Scott needs a quick totorial how to get the maps from the mopdules I can show him from one of the star wars modules how I did it and removed all DM only info from maps… Its not that hard and since he is running out of the premade maps he will probably need to know how to do it anyway.
Also how come no new artwork in the latests several posts… we’ve had a month off nobody has had the time to add a couple of pics?
just a couple of random thoughts… Also looking forward to adding our Ranger to the group!
As for Gil Jh’Dek, I have taken it upon myself to to help things out and have Gil motivated by my own contrived reasons…(his clan elders requested he do this, for the good of the many). It works for me…
OK OK I missed the last name initial and that it was the other Matt…
Matt M (Not sure I ever knew your last name), if you want to join us your welcome, whenever your schedule permits. I spoke with Scott last night and he mentioned that you enjoyed our logs… I’m glad you liked them!
Glad to hear that you’ve heard from Matt M. I was thinking about him the other day and wondering if we’re going to come across a ranger around here somewhere…
As for the reasons for the group to stay together, right now Sheldon is motivated by a couple things. First and foremost, he things the S* is about to hit the fan and thinks that history may be repeatable in that The Diamond League fixed the problem before, a group of adventurers may be needed to fix the problem again – and we have been doing a pretty good job of vermin removal so far. Second, while we’re not rolling in money, we are actually making more cash than you could reasonably expect to earn doing other things. Third, he wants to travel and make contacts with important people to further the business interests of his family – and becoming a hero will fit right into that plan rather nicely.
However, Frank is indeed correct in that not all the characters have all that much motivation to remain a cohesive group. Brokenglass in particular seems to be here simply because he feels like it. He isn’t from this world, has no ties to the area, no overriding mission from god. Nothing that I can see other than he didn’t much like being randomly attacked in a tavern and decided to stick with us. Hmmmmm… ...maybe he’s an enemy spy. They were using gnomes, and he was a gnome when we met him… ...wow, maybe Mokolons paranoia is hereditary! ;)
I hadn’t realized that his stopping play was an option after this little break. Althoguh I would not be surprised since that is exactly what happened with the Star Wars Campaign. Work just got him too busy… Hopefully the history will not repeat.
As for a reason to stay together… still not a reason really just we were the people with the information, and in the right spot at the right time. A reason unto itself really but can you keep that up ;) Its not like I’ve been promised the “riches” and “lands” etc. that are mentioned in the intro splash page ;) I have tried togive you a hook or two with Alyss and Jalissa. Perhaps somethign will evolve with one or both of them… the Clerics of Perlore looking to form a group of adventurers for their purposes has not been really relayed properly to the group and “rewards” have not been discussed at all. Perhaps the next time we are at the Cathedral a proper NPC encounter can lay it out for us ;-)
As it is now I think we are going to be motivated by our desire to not see everything we know be destroyed by Orc hordes… that should last a level ot two ;-)
Looking back at your Sep.12th post, I’d like to think I’ve satisfied your desires at having to work together again.
The way things are working out, you guys seem to be harbinger of important news. Keeps you guys front & center & in the ‘lights’...
Can’t wait to get the rest of this adventure moving, once yer back from Floirda. Have a nice vacation. I’m sure you will.
Also, Matt M. contacted me to say hey. I’ll find out shortly if he’ll have time to play on Sundays.
I like that the writeups of the same session are subtely different form each persons perspective. the details change a bit but the general story is the same. I think it makes for a good “style”.
I said below that they’ll certainly be reasons for you to ‘stick’ together…All in good time…
I as a player am asking you to please provide a reason other then it would be cool for us to go risk our lives toghetgher again for remaining a group… for us to remain a group would be sort of meta gaming as we don’t have a campaign without it, but I’d prefer s few in game motivations… its not about picking a name per se…
on another note – in the obsidian portal “location” for our group we’re playing in Maple Shade school… do you know how to enter a proper address into the system?
You ran into a few people, who think you are a ‘group. Therefore, they asked what u go by. Given this, some of the party members have given thought to a name, and even moreso, about working together again. You’ve heard of other groups, and that they have names, so it seems commonplace.
As for reasons to stay together, you shall see….
I, GM, am not forcing any of you to choose a name. It has merely come up in-character during the various sessions. Don’t choose a name. Perhaps let the citizens decide one, or offer suggestions, or if you end up working together again, decide a name then…
How about something simple like the “Bolsters of Brindol”, or “The Defenders”, or tertiary adjunct to unimatrix zero…
Personally I do not see why an ad-hoc group of guys that went out to rescue a few towns folk deserve a “name” yet. As far as we’re concerned trhis was a one time deal really… the story will dictate why we stay together aft4er this little “get to know each other” excusion…
Seriously GM – we need a “reason” to stay together after this other then “gee that was Fun lets see if we can get into more trouble…” Perhaps Brindol and the other towns of the Vale get together and decide that they need a more “official” group of problem solvers and use us as the initial memebers dubbing us “Defenders of the Vale”, perhaps with ranks, lands etc… “Perks” if you will… Just a thought… or two…
Yes but you can choose to “animate” differnet scenes in each post…
FInished the post for session 7. you read it before I finished it. I had actual “work” to do… that delayed me from finishing.
I’ve finally got adding pics all figured out. I’ve been adding pics I’ve had saved to your guys logs. Go back to the 1st logs and see what has been updated. If you have pics of your own, post them, or even add the same pics as I’ve already posted to your own (if I haven’t already). Since u guys post about the same session, but diff. POV’s, the pics are basically the same.
Here is the easiest one : Elsir Vale Defenders ;)
The groups that exist now or in the past have been named : The Diamond League (the hero group as mentioned in the campaign players guide, who saved the Vale & beyond from the Red Hand of Doom war), FreeRiders, Edgar Sommerfield’s FarStriders, the Green Hand, the Company of Wolves, the Slayers, the Ruby Crew, Blue Skies (an all girl adventuring group), the Mercurial Five, amongst a handful of others…
Perhaps once u get back to Brindol, a name can be decided over fresh cold ale & some home cooked meals…Mirtala promised a meal, her famous rosemary braised chops of lamb w/ bountiful amounts of vegetables & soup…
Bill – U had me worried there. Good thing u said something. Last nite, was tinkering w/ getting pics added, and must have accidently clicked GM only. Should be fixed now. Everyone, let me know if u can see Bill’s last POV session log.
It is a very good one, too…
Finally figured getting pics to show full size. Switched to using my photobucket account. I will be adding pics to all of the adventure logs. Should add a good bit of color. They say ‘a picture is worth a thousand words’, so…
Also, thx to Mike M for creating our new banner. Looks very cool.
On a serious not, if Ruffians doesn’t pass, you guys are new to the campaign world, but are prolly strong residents of one area, like the Elsir Vale or Brindol. Perhaps a name tied to local history or an area….perhaps the SOW players guide could help u pick a name.
OOC-u guys may not like to have a group name, but it is traditional to the lands…prolly something your PC would be proud to have…
...OMG…I HATE it when i’m right…
All options considered…with all due respect to your suggestion frank, and cringing at scott’s (lol jk), i still prefer “The Ruffians”....
...Pelor help us…..
Me? Scott? The DM would just throw a moniker on u guys!? Hrmmm…I wouldn’t do that. Or would I?
Think ‘The Slayers’ ‘The Killers’ ‘The Vagabonds’ lol
...so the “Farstriders” sounds any better? Just about every group name i have heard for a dnd adventuring party had some corny ring to it. Admittedly, the Ruffians does sound like a 60’s b movie, so what? You know Scott is going to have the townsfolk lump some name onto us, because societal protocols call for it. Id rather have the choice of choosing that moniker ourselves, rather than have a less desireable one heaped onto us.
The Ruffians sounds like a bad ripoff of bad movie title. How about The long shots, or something that indicates we take oon stupidly dangerous things against all sense… that could also lend itself to the fairly funny/ironic conclusion thays we are a band of archers… without even one dedicated ranged attacker ;) Personally why we need a name I don’t really get, we just volunteeered to help the town in a moment of crisis… hey how a out “Crisis Managment”... an equally bad movie title rip off for sure…
OK, now, im changing my mind….
Previously i was in favor us calling us “Them” for lack of a better name…
But, after re-reading the entry “echos from the Council”, i think we should call ourselves, ‘The Ruffians”.
What does every one else think?
Hete I vouched for Morrick… That shoud give him some chance of not being put to death…
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